Talk:Demise
Demise Demise is the official name of the boss or not? :According to the text dump, yes. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 12:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC) :But if the Kanji listed are correct, the translation of the Japanese is wrong. My dead-tree and two online Japanese dictionaries tell me that "終焉" is most correctly and literally translated as "demise", (it's a fairly direct reading from the Kanji too, since they mean something like "way/method of" and "ending"). And "の者" can only mean "Person/being described by-/with characteristics of-". The "tyrannical" part comes out of nowhere. ::That translation was added by another anonymous user. That user also added a section explaining why he translated it the way he did, and now that I went back and read what he/she wrote, "Tyrannical Being" was apparently his/her assumption of what the most correct translation was, rather than a direct translation. Given that "Person of Demise" was the given translation before that edit, I am inclined to trust you. Jedimasterlink (talk) 08:20, February 24, 2012 (UTC) mentioned "King of Darkness, ancient demon reborn. The wielder of the trident!!" — Princess Zelda (Four Swords Adventures) This could be a mention of Demise, as Ganon is him reborn. DrNefarious :Probably. Or that's where they got the inspiration from. --EveryDayJoe45 (talk) 12:57, November 28, 2011 (UTC) ::I think it more likely a reference to how they depicted a new Ganon in that game. Given the time frame between the two and Four Swords Adventures place as a minor title in the series it seems unlikely. You never know though it could be the inspiration, I'd like it if that was what they are referring to, something about multiple Ganons has always bothered me. Reincarnating something that dangerous just seems like the gods are sadistic. Oni Link 20:44, November 28, 2011 (UTC) More than just Ganon? "Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse. An incarnation of my hatred shall ever follow your kind, dooming them to wander a blood-soaked sea of darkness for all time!" OK, so I don't see a reason why Demise's curse has to refer only to Ganon. Yes, he's clearly and obviously meant as the primary reference, but it's even mentioned that the form he appears in changes in every era (I think it was Fi?). I see no reason why Demise can't be a reference to Vaati, maybe also Majora, and possibly even Dethl. It would be a nice comment tying the whole series together. However, Jäzzi seems to disagree. Keeping in mind that Majora doesn't actually come from Termina and that we have no idea what kind of limitations exist on this kind of reincarnaton and Demise's power, I think a blanket statement that it's only Ganon is just silly. I'm not saying you have to mention other people by name (because, admittedly, that could get a bit out of hand), but a quick line that it could be others is really all I'm asking. -[[User:Platypus222|'Platypus Man']] | ''Talk'' 00:59, December 5, 2011 (UTC) I have to point out a really bad mistake. We DO NOT KNOW where Majora's Mask comes from. All we know is it appears in Terminia. Just because the Mask Salesman had it doesn't mean it came from Hyrule, or a 3rd unknown dimension. All we know is it exists, and it houses the spirit of a demon. Oh, and Fi simply said every legend about Demise depicts him differently, and a lot of real life myths are the same, different versions depict beings differently. Evnyofdeath 01:02, December 5, 2011 (UTC) He mentions one incarnation. This can interpreted in two ways, one being a singular incarnation, and the other being a general statement, i.e. at any given time there will be "an" incarnation. However, the latter is a slightly awkward interpretation, and leads me to believe that he is referring to only Ganondorf. That being said, I wouldn't be actively opposed to (briefly) mentioning this possibility. Xykeb Yvolix '' '' 01:06, December 5, 2011 (UTC) Aside form stating "an incarnation" instead of just "incarnations", all villains in the series with the exception of Malladus appear in games with Ganondorf or in a sequel to a game that featured Ganondorf. I believe the usage of incarnation in this context suggests only one would be able to exsist at a time and even Malladus is depicted as having existed before the events of The Wind Waker (and thus exsisting at the same time as The Wind Waker Ganondorf) Oni Link 19:19, December 5, 2011 (UTC) Demise wouldn't be lame enough to reincarnate as Vaati. Case closed. --AuronKaizer ' 19:25, December 5, 2011 (UTC) I always thought of Minish Cap and Four Swords as a different timeline than Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, etc. IMO Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Twilight Princess are the only sequels to Skyward Sword, splitting into only two timelines. I was wondering about Malladus, though, both he and Demise are said to be a "demon king", but if he can only do one incarnation at a time, then Malladus, Majora, Bellum, etc. can't be a reincarnation of his hatred as they all exist at the same time as Ganondorf at one point. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 19:16, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Correct me if I'm wrong and other games are in the same timelines. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 19:18, December 7, 2011 (UTC) It dawned on me that it is impossible for Vaati to be an icarnation of Demise's hatred, because both Vaati and Ganon appear at the same time in Four Swords Adventures. Evnyofdeath 22:42, December 7, 2011 (UTC) I just thought of something regarding the continuity of Four Swords with Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, etc. Is there anything to suggest that Four Swords, Minish Cap, etc. don't take place sometime after Twilight Princess? There is certainly more than one Link (maybe some part of him is reincarnated in later games, just like Demise as Ganondorf), and more than one Zelda (all descendants of Skyward Sword's Zelda from the sound of it) so what if, after Link kills Ganondorf in Twilight Princess, his hate is reincarnated as the Ganon of Four Swords Adventures. Maybe even the Oracle of Ages series is somewhere in there as well. If there's anything that suggests that this theory might be wrong, please tell me coz I've never played Minish Cap, Four Swords, etc. Ghostkaiba297 (talk) 00:25, December 8, 2011 (UTC) Ok maybe I'm wrong but...well anyway, as far as I can think of, Gannondorf is the only person Demise could be. After the Sages banished Gannondorf, he didn't die. He was still alive, just trapped in the Sacred Realm. After this, Link went off to find a friend (probably Navi but you never know, it could have been Zelda). This is when he fell into Termina. Majora already existed when Gannondorf had been banished. So if Gannondorf really is Demise, which let's assume he is, Majora can't be Demise, nor can it be Vaati, Zant, Bellum or Malladus. It can't be Vaati because he and Gannondorf existed at the same time. Same with Zant. The only ones it could possible be are Bellum and Malladus since Gannondorf probably died at the end of Wind Waker but it can't be them. It can't be Bellum because Demise tries to kill Link's descendants and the King of Red Lions (A.K.A. the king of Hyrule) said the Wind Waker Link has no connection to the Hero of Time. It can't be Malladus because Malladus was still alive when he was sealed into the ground with the Tower of Spirits and he was only killed after Wind Waker happened. Therefore, it happened after Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword. In other words, Majora, Malladus, Zant and Vaati all existed at the same time as Gannondorf at some point and Bellum has no reason to kill Link other than the fact that it's evil. :It's a common misconception that Demise cursed Link's descendants; he actually says "those with the spirit of the hero". People like Wind Waker Link are of course still an incarnation of Link, his "spiritual successor" if you will, even if they aren't blood relatives. That being said, so far we have been removing theory section on the wiki which state that Malladus/etc. are reincarnations of Demise's hatred, based on a lack of direct connections, and on the idea that these evil beings originated in a time/place where no one with the "blood of the Goddess" or "spirit of the hero" existed. Being in existence at the same time as a Ganondorf also makes it unlikely a given villain is a result of Demise's curse. Also about the Majora's Mask thing, Zelda wouldn't be the friend based on what we see of Link's flashback about her; Link would not be leaving Zelda to go on a quest to find Zelda.--[[User:Fierce Deku|'Fierce]][[User talk:Fierce Deku|'Deku']] 03:25, January 26, 2012 (UTC) I'm pretty sure it was Navi, I was just saying. I thought Zelda was the one who left...i have to play OoT again...and yes but those "with the spirit of the hero" are often descendants of Link. Those that aren't involve enemies who can't be demise. AoL Dark Link is a possile reincarnations as he did not exist at the same time as Ganon and also wielded a Dark Master Sword.--DrNefarious (talk) 13:50, June 18, 2012 (UTC) Voice Actor I'm wondering why the article on Demise says that his voice was provided by Takashi Nagasako, his name is not listed in the credits and I have not heard this in any interviews. I find this strange because he was replaced by Hironori Miyata in both TP and Brawl. Does anyone have a source for this? :Out of curiosity are any voice actors listed in the credits of Zelda games? A quick check of his wikipedia page shows that a random ip recently removed skyward sword from the list without a summary. The information was put here by Weedle McHairyBug who originally said Four Swords Misadventures before it was replaced as an error (which it likely was since it says up to Four Swords and Ganondorf hasn't appeared in Four Swords Misadventures yet). It does seem slightly doubtful, still probably possible but I would also like to see some kind of source. Oni Link 16:57, May 10, 2012 (UTC) Lorule hey am i the only one who has noticed the fact that it seems heavily implied that demise is from lorule? hears the evidence. 1. he has a inverted mastersword bearing a upside down triforce lorule is know to possess a inverted triforce as hinted at by nintendo and princess hildas dress has a upside down triforce on it as well and his inverted sword seems to go along with the fact that lorule is a inverted hyrule. 2.it was said that demise entered hyrule from a fissure in the earth in a link between worlds you go between lorule and hyrule using cracks in the wall a fissure is basically a giant crack. so what do you guys think--2sheikah4 (talk) 16:50, October 25, 2013 (UTC) :This is 100% conjecture. At least wait until the game comes out. ''Xykeb Yvolix '' 22:50, October 25, 2013 (UTC) ok i cant wait for the game to come out anyway.--2sheikah4 (talk) 20:23, October 26, 2013 (UTC) :Way to shake my world a bit. Prior to Link Between Worlds, I had thought I'd figured it out. Reading Hyrule historia closely, one might note that the artists were told a few things for his guidelines. He must resemble Ganondorf and have an old wound on his head. This made me believe the timeline was cyclical. That Demise is Ganon from the windwaker timeline, which ends with Link sealing the mastersword in his forehead, right where the scar was. :The master sword always loses it's ability to repel evil in some form between the games. We never really get it fully powered up from the get go. Even in windwaker, they mention it loses it's sealing power over time, which is why you had to recharge it. I figured it sat there sealing Ganon at the bottom of the ocean for hundreds and hundreds of years, before the seal started weakening. :Given it's proximity to Ganon, I even wagered it went further than usual. That Ganon's evil infected the master sword. Tainted it, to become what it was for Demise. After the seal was broken, I figured Ganon gathered the triforce and made a spiteful wish: To go back to the start of it all with enough power to destroy everything. A wish to finally destroy his hated foes once and for all. I figured Girahim was just Fi post corruption. :Timey-wimey stuff was even done in Skyward Sword itself, as if establishing that it is certainly a thing that can be done within their world. :All that said, now with the knowledge from Link between worlds, my thoughts have been shaken a bit. Ah well. It was a nice dream while it lasted. Caidryn (talk) Deity Demise is said to be eternal existing from the beginning of time, and the source of all evil."This eternal being has conquered time itself. It is the source of all monsters. According to tales passed down through generations, it appears differently in each epoch and to each person who lays eyes on it." -Fi, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword Hence why the deity page lists him as a deity on this very wiki. That's why his race should be not just merely demon, but deity as well. References: :I am not convinced, this is an over-interpretation from a quote, it remains a point of view, and a simple quote from one NPC is anyway not significant. Moreover a demon can be eternal as well without being a deity. Be careful to avoid edit-warring, hopefully you have opened a discussion, but please wait for it next time before editing again that can lead to a possible edit-warring.WiseAdventurer (talk) 20:37, June 4, 2017 (UTC) ::On the Deity page, we "define" a deity as not being a race, but as just a way to classify powerful beings. So Demise could possibly be categorized as a Deity, but it shouldn't go in the race section of his infobox. —'Ceiling Master' 20:55, June 4, 2017 (UTC) :::I see, very loosely used! WiseAdventurer (talk) 21:24, June 4, 2017 (UTC) I say we do put it in his infobox. He's clearly a counter point to Hylia who is definitely a deity and is identified as such in her infobox. Likewise we use the term for other being that have a race already like the Deku Tree or Valoo. I see no reason for Demise not to have it in his infobox, unless we make it uniform and every deity should have it removed from their infobox. Oni Link 17:18, June 5, 2017 (UTC) :I see what you mean. However, by taking into account what CM and you explained, we should keep things consistent or uniform as you wrote. I took a new look at the Deity page and I see weird and maybe inconsistent points. For exemple, people like Ganon who appear in the "members" field of the infobox while in its page nothing really consider him as a Deity, and other characters compared to those listed under Category:Deities. Another point is, if Deity is not a race, should we change the "races" categories?WiseAdventurer (talk) 21:09, June 5, 2017 (UTC)